First thing I tried to never work more than 80% (~35 hours per week). It's the first thing I ask for, not money. Having a day in the week just for me felt like pure luxury. Perfect to get things done and actually enjoy my weekend.
However actual freedom came through building my own things. Before I build something I always ask myself
if I could leave this project for a month without it suffering, so I plan my freedom in with automations. Many many projects later some worked out.
In Germany you can request to work part-time (30h per week), it's in the constitution, of course, you get paid 30 hours.
It's really common, it's so common that the average work week here is 35/h.
Most people I know work the default 40h, but as people get older they typically opt-in to work part-time.
So if you aren't from Germany, one thing you can consider is moving here. It has a good/stable tech job market. Salaries are nowhere as close to the US, but I'm sure you'll be a more interesting person after a few years here, living a more cultural diverse experience.
“You must offer your part‑time staff the same employment conditions as full-time workers, including pay, leave, notice periods and other rights and benefits linked to their employment. The employment conditions should be applied on a pro-rata basis compared to full time workers. For example, if a part-time worker works half the hours of a full-time worker, they should receive half the amount of annual leave.
[…]
Whenever possible, you should try to accommodate requests from your employees if they want to change their working schedules, such as:
- transferring from full-time to part-time
- transferring from part-time to full-time
- increasing their working hours
You cannot dismiss an employee if they refuse to transfer from part-time to full-time work or vice versa.“*
I initially dropped to 4 days/week in lieu of a payrise (comp remained the same). Did that for a while and since then I've been working 2-4 days/week (3 right now)
It helped that it was a small company and I had been working there for 5+ years, not sure how I'd go about finding a part time software job otherwise. Everything is negotiable though.
I would second this and add that moving to part time is a path that your manager can help you talk to HR about. They may ask why since its not common and just be honest about it. If its medical related - taking care of spouse, parents, or kids then in the US there is FMLA which can be up to 12 weeks, pay depends on banked time off and insurance, etc.
In the US there are likely medical benefit and retirement account requirements for working X hours per week, I think its 32 typically but check with HR or if your place has an employee manual it should be clearly spelled out. To phrase that another way - you may lose medical coverage and/or 401k match depending on the "hours" you work. Scary quotes is because you are likely still salary and not hourly.
I have myself gotten to a point in my career where my expectations no longer fit the standard model of a job in a company. And that is OK in my opinion.
When that becomes the case, starting your own company offers much more freedom.
I consider that a great goal. Each day I waste about an hour driving. You add in time to get ready etc, it is probably 1.5 hours. hmmm gas, insurance ... maybe I need to do a new spreadsheet and evaluate what the break even point for working from home.
This is important. My current job seems dreamy. It is a combo of having developers as the customer (= passion) and having a lot of valuable stuff to learm that could get me into a Vercel or Cloudflare later or be a consultant. Overall it is fun.
If freedom is your actual target, you might see that differently.
Many of my own life choices have been to minimize monthly costs in order to invest time and money to build more freedom for myself (i.e. own things that make money). I never had savings back then, but I had just enough for my 'simple' life. Instead of saving money I invested time.
It sure depends where you are. But I am sure most young people in tech , before family, before children, could easily afford working a day less when they optimize something else.
I've struggled finding work that is other than 40 hour a week body shops. Where do you look for these magical clients that will take variable time engagements?
I'll take a 60 hour work week and mandatory 12 hour weekend shifts for a total of 84 hours a week right now. I'll take minimum wage. How on earth are y'all getting and keeping jobs such that you can whine about not having enough time to spend your fortunes?
* Increase your value. In my case I have decades in senior management in a part time job managing up to 30 people. There were many times the stress of the part time job absolutely dwarfed that of the full time job. These experiences supremely advanced my communication skills, public speaking, and administrative capabilities generations beyond that of my developer peers. This means my employer knows I am capable in ways others are not and will provide me wide latitude of free time in case something critical comes in.
* Increase your skills. I spend a lot of time writing ambitious personal software. I have learned to measure things and challenge common assumptions from that personal software. Time and effort are different on personal projects because you aren’t getting paid, so you learn to minimize tech debt and time waste to maximize for learning and experimentation. At the day job you just do the tasks assigned how they want you to do them. I always try to hide my personal resourcefulness and criticality and just fit in, but given enough time employers will always see that you struggle less and are severely under utilized.
* Be extremely gifted at written communication and detail orientation. Nothing increases your free time like pushing back on incomplete ideas and assumption elimination.
The bottom line is that if you want to spend 7 hours of your work day watching television or playing games then you need to get all your work done in less time, ensure clarity around your assignments, and ensure management values you enough to provide you increased flexibility.
Oh thats far too easy. Just use your company provided PTO or take a leave of absence. Why even bother asking HN for that when you should be asking your employer's HR team?
PTO, even unlimited, is managerial discretion (not HR) and is rarely allowed more than two weeks in a stretch.
What's a leave of absence?
As a financial tech worker, what you're describing sounds like academia or European standards. Of course they're great solutions, they just don't exist as options for some of us.
I am a Sr. Sys Admin, but I solved this with one simple trick: I requested 4 x 10 hour days, and I work about 32 actual hours.
I am meeting all my targets so it's fine.
Easy-peasy.
First thing I tried to never work more than 80% (~35 hours per week). It's the first thing I ask for, not money. Having a day in the week just for me felt like pure luxury. Perfect to get things done and actually enjoy my weekend.
However actual freedom came through building my own things. Before I build something I always ask myself if I could leave this project for a month without it suffering, so I plan my freedom in with automations. Many many projects later some worked out.
In Germany you can request to work part-time (30h per week), it's in the constitution, of course, you get paid 30 hours.
It's really common, it's so common that the average work week here is 35/h.
Most people I know work the default 40h, but as people get older they typically opt-in to work part-time.
So if you aren't from Germany, one thing you can consider is moving here. It has a good/stable tech job market. Salaries are nowhere as close to the US, but I'm sure you'll be a more interesting person after a few years here, living a more cultural diverse experience.
That’s EU-wide. https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/human-resources/employ...:
“You must offer your part‑time staff the same employment conditions as full-time workers, including pay, leave, notice periods and other rights and benefits linked to their employment. The employment conditions should be applied on a pro-rata basis compared to full time workers. For example, if a part-time worker works half the hours of a full-time worker, they should receive half the amount of annual leave.
[…]
Whenever possible, you should try to accommodate requests from your employees if they want to change their working schedules, such as:
- transferring from full-time to part-time
- transferring from part-time to full-time
- increasing their working hours
You cannot dismiss an employee if they refuse to transfer from part-time to full-time work or vice versa.“*
Part time work is possible.
I initially dropped to 4 days/week in lieu of a payrise (comp remained the same). Did that for a while and since then I've been working 2-4 days/week (3 right now)
It helped that it was a small company and I had been working there for 5+ years, not sure how I'd go about finding a part time software job otherwise. Everything is negotiable though.
I would second this and add that moving to part time is a path that your manager can help you talk to HR about. They may ask why since its not common and just be honest about it. If its medical related - taking care of spouse, parents, or kids then in the US there is FMLA which can be up to 12 weeks, pay depends on banked time off and insurance, etc.
In the US there are likely medical benefit and retirement account requirements for working X hours per week, I think its 32 typically but check with HR or if your place has an employee manual it should be clearly spelled out. To phrase that another way - you may lose medical coverage and/or 401k match depending on the "hours" you work. Scary quotes is because you are likely still salary and not hourly.
I have myself gotten to a point in my career where my expectations no longer fit the standard model of a job in a company. And that is OK in my opinion. When that becomes the case, starting your own company offers much more freedom.
I recently worked from home and saved a lot of time by cutting out the commute.
I consider that a great goal. Each day I waste about an hour driving. You add in time to get ready etc, it is probably 1.5 hours. hmmm gas, insurance ... maybe I need to do a new spreadsheet and evaluate what the break even point for working from home.
Work well paying jobs, save up a lot, take time off, repeat.
And resume gaps?
and being over 40?
Not happening for you, it seems.
Part-time work! I reject all of the full-time only positions.
How are you finding part time positions?
Negotiate, even if the position is marked as full-time. Starting full-time then switching to part-time is also an option.
I switched to contracting and make sure all my contacts are “up to 80%”.
For the past 7 years I’ve worked around 1200 hours per year on average
How are you getting your contracts? What do you mean by up to 80%?
Zero free time but I do at work what I would have done on my free time.
This is important. My current job seems dreamy. It is a combo of having developers as the customer (= passion) and having a lot of valuable stuff to learm that could get me into a Vercel or Cloudflare later or be a consultant. Overall it is fun.
It depends on how much money you have made. If you haven't made much like (99% of devs), then most people need money.
If you have been in FAANG or part of startup that exploded or went through IPO, then you value time.
This is unfortunate but this is the truth.
If freedom is your actual target, you might see that differently.
Many of my own life choices have been to minimize monthly costs in order to invest time and money to build more freedom for myself (i.e. own things that make money). I never had savings back then, but I had just enough for my 'simple' life. Instead of saving money I invested time.
It sure depends where you are. But I am sure most young people in tech , before family, before children, could easily afford working a day less when they optimize something else.
Become a consultant and set your own hours.
I've struggled finding work that is other than 40 hour a week body shops. Where do you look for these magical clients that will take variable time engagements?
You need a "product", not hourly billing. Defined outcome and a price per engagement, rather than charging for your time.
Took a 30% pay cut to do software for less demanding but more rewarding company.
You work remote or in office on this less demanding company?
In office
People should measure $ per mg of adrenaline released during sedate activity rather than per hour. Well done!
Sedate or sedentary?
Depends on who is hosting the meeting
1. Ask to reduce to 3 or 4 days.
2. Gaps between jobs.
I am looking into how I cam earn $200 plus/h consulting (double if I need to market to find work).
Then 20h/w is enough.
I'll take a 60 hour work week and mandatory 12 hour weekend shifts for a total of 84 hours a week right now. I'll take minimum wage. How on earth are y'all getting and keeping jobs such that you can whine about not having enough time to spend your fortunes?
* Increase your value. In my case I have decades in senior management in a part time job managing up to 30 people. There were many times the stress of the part time job absolutely dwarfed that of the full time job. These experiences supremely advanced my communication skills, public speaking, and administrative capabilities generations beyond that of my developer peers. This means my employer knows I am capable in ways others are not and will provide me wide latitude of free time in case something critical comes in.
* Increase your skills. I spend a lot of time writing ambitious personal software. I have learned to measure things and challenge common assumptions from that personal software. Time and effort are different on personal projects because you aren’t getting paid, so you learn to minimize tech debt and time waste to maximize for learning and experimentation. At the day job you just do the tasks assigned how they want you to do them. I always try to hide my personal resourcefulness and criticality and just fit in, but given enough time employers will always see that you struggle less and are severely under utilized.
* Be extremely gifted at written communication and detail orientation. Nothing increases your free time like pushing back on incomplete ideas and assumption elimination.
The bottom line is that if you want to spend 7 hours of your work day watching television or playing games then you need to get all your work done in less time, ensure clarity around your assignments, and ensure management values you enough to provide you increased flexibility.
What I mean by more freetime is a time off the 9-5 job
Oh thats far too easy. Just use your company provided PTO or take a leave of absence. Why even bother asking HN for that when you should be asking your employer's HR team?
Do you live in the US?
PTO, even unlimited, is managerial discretion (not HR) and is rarely allowed more than two weeks in a stretch.
What's a leave of absence?
As a financial tech worker, what you're describing sounds like academia or European standards. Of course they're great solutions, they just don't exist as options for some of us.
Yes, I am a US software developer with nearly 20 years. You are very clearly not talking to your employer and not thinking this through.
Thanks GPT but OP was talking about something different.
I don't remember the last time I saw "supremely" in a sentence XD
It was not GPT just as I am sure you are not trolling.